AVCHD Conspiracy Theory
on 10.23.06, 08:44pm in media • comments (16)
[Jake Ludington] Windows Vista is already behind in its support of digital video cameras and the product hasn’t shipped yet. Sean Alexander and Furrygoat, two Microsoft employees, are both drooling over the new Sony HDR-SR1 which records 1080i HD direct to a hard drive on the camcorder. I don’t blame them - it’s a hot looking camera with great features. The camera won’t work with the Vista version of Windows Movie Maker.
One of the key features of the Vista version of Windows Movie Maker is supposed to be HD support. The supported HD in Sony HDR-SR1 is AVCHD, which uses H.264 MPEG-4 compression to keep file sizes down, giving you 2 hours of recording on the 30GB hard drive. AVCHD is not compatible with Windows Movie Maker because Microsoft is electing not to support AVC out-of-the-box.
The blogosphere is a funny place: I was just about to write a follow up entry to the Sony HDR-SR1 complaining about the apparent lack of support of AVC-HD on the Mac, but Jake already jumped on the codec issue. I use Final Cut Express HD these days to edit most of my videos and was just shocked to find out it doesn’t yet support the new AVC standard (nor does iMovie apparently).
As for Vista - I have no idea (or any insight to be honest) on how we decide what DShow filters that we include in the box.
All I know, is that on both platforms, support for AVCHD is limited right now. Both OS’s seem to have decent HDV support though.
Welcome to codec hell.
Grover Saunders (October 28, 2006 @ 10:02 am)
I don’t want to turn this into an anti-MS tirade, but you can’t blame him for being skeptical. The AVCHD standard is brand spanking new (if I’m not mistaken, the cameras in question is one of the first to use this) and if history is any indication, the next versions of Apple’s video apps will include support with AVCHD, just as occurred with the HDV standard. Apple tends to update far more often to add support for emerging formats.
MS on the other hand has a history of purposefully not supporting standards out of the box (ie both HDV, MPEG-4/H.264) in favor of their own proprietary versions of these standards and never changing this. For example XP comes with support for MPEG-4 out of the box, just not MPEG-4 in the standard container and this has never changed, even as .mp4 are starting to be the defacto standard for download (due to the PSP and iPod). WMM supporting HDV out of the box would be news to me since it’s based on MPEG-2 which is not supported by XP out of the box at all. As far as I understood it, WMM only supports HD in the VC-1 (ie MS) format.
Steve (October 28, 2006 @ 3:15 pm)
I actually thought that Vista WMM has HDV support in it.
Ed Sullivan (October 30, 2006 @ 3:23 pm)
i HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY EDITING SOFTWARE I.E. PINNACLE STUDIO 10. WHAT REALLY GET ME IS THAT SONY SUPPLIES A VIDEO VEIWER AND SOFTWARE TO IMPORT THIS NEW AVCHD FORMAT BUT ONLY THIER SOFTWARE CAN EDIT. THEY DO ALLOW FOR CONVERSION TO MPEG2 BUT THEN YOU LOSE THE HD ASPECTS. I HAVE A LOT OF MONEY IN THE SOFTWARE THAT I USE AND WAS TOLD BY A SONY REP. THAT AVCHD WAS MPEG4 AND WOULD BE SUPPORTED BY ANY SOFTWARE THAT SUPPORTS MPEG4. SURPRISE!!!!! HEY, IF ANY ONE OUT THERE NOWS A WAY AROUND THIS FORMAT PLEASE LET ME KNOW. AT THIS POINT I FIGURE I WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND HOPE THIS FORMAT BECOMES COMMON PLACE ENOUGH FOR THE SOFTWARE COMPANIES TO CAR ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS A BIT MORE.
Ed Bell (November 2, 2006 @ 9:01 pm)
AVCHD
What an issue. A technology with no support available YET!
Even the software shipped with the camcorder does not read the new format. SP yes, AVCHD no!!
I purchased the camcorder with no idea what I was getting into. Is this the next BetaMax???
The good news is that if you are willing to wait….. record on SP format…. the camera will work.
How long until versions of editing softare work with AVCHD?? 3 months more.
Should I take the camera back and get an SP camera until the format is proven, or a Canon, or the older HC3.
Oh too Many questions. Your thoughts….
Brett Noe (November 14, 2006 @ 2:32 pm)
BlackMagic Designs has released their Intensity card which captures from HDMI. You could use the HDMI out on the SR1 to capture to the codec of your choice.
At least that’s my plan.
Rob Mitchell (January 5, 2007 @ 2:40 pm)
Hello,
I need to chime in. Firstly I have purchased the UX1 (mini-DVD) version. I must say the quality ROCKS! and that’s why I purchased it.
As for the supplied software, the codec supplied does work and allows you to playback ANY clip you download onto your PC (not MAC).
I have been playing with this since early December 2006. The supplied software which allows to create mediocre DVD titles is rudimentary at best however it does work!
For those who wish for a more robust editing package I say be patient. It’s the price you pay for being ahead of the technology curve and in AVCHD case the curve is more like a “bleeding edge”.
Again I love this camera, it’s has the best quality for the price.
I too have purchased the proper HDMI cable and connected to my HDTV…WOW I was blown away with the crisp detail. Note that however the detail will depend on just how good you are as a videographer…meaning no matter what you expect low light and shaking the camera will produce bad results.
Take this for what it’s worth.
Cheers,
Rob Mitchell
Sony HDR-UX1 owner
Chase Nielsen (January 10, 2007 @ 4:26 pm)
Where did you purchase your HDMI cable?
Thanks!
Ian Rudgewick-Brown (January 16, 2007 @ 8:07 am)
Oh no……. you guys have been waiting since last year for AVCHD to be picked up by the editing software companies. Well it’s now mid Jan 2007 and I have contacted most of the companies and no one has a product that can read AVCHD !!! not even Sony with their Vagas editing software!!!?????
I think we should take our cameras back to the shop for a full refund, I know I will, sure you could wait! and guess what? by than the new model of the camera will be out and you were left waiting like a sucker!
Not happy,
Ian
London UK
Sleepless in Tokyo (January 20, 2007 @ 9:58 pm)
AVCHD is not a frame-accurate editiable, so you need to transcode to an editable format like HDV. AVCHD is ideal for direct copy to Blu-ray, without a computer, and for display on a TV, hence the HDMI connector, and many TVs here in Japan now come with a SDHC or MemoryStick card reader for those who just want to take a look at what they recorded.
I like it as it is file based. Import the clips, sort out what you want to keep, do basic cropping, then transcode to HDV for editing. 4GB cards work fine. I have a hard drive with a card reader, I just stick the card in, press one button, and the data is copied over. So with two 4GB cards I can keep shooting by recycling the cards.
Bilgruva (February 16, 2007 @ 2:05 pm)
What are you using to transcode to HDV from AVCHD?
Sean (February 24, 2007 @ 8:34 pm)
Correction needs to be made about the AVCHD codec.
- it IS NOT MPEG-4 Layer 10 / H.264.
- it IS MPEG-4 Layer 10 but a non-standard version, which Sony, Canon, and Panasonic have been toying with.
Lindsay Jelley (March 12, 2007 @ 2:09 pm)
I have just bought a Sony HDR-SR1E - I am an working towards an MA in Fine Art and am experimenting with video and learning about editing on Imovie and final cut pro. I bought the camera in good faith and was assured by the Sony shop assistents that I would be able to open the files on an apple through the named applications. So imagine how fed up I am to now find out I can’t. Trouble is I like the camera - the way it handles and to be able to see the clips easily and quickly. I think I’ll have to take it back though as my main aim is to faff about with my shots- please has anyone found a way to get the files onto an apple before I march back to the shop.
teacee (April 21, 2007 @ 12:08 pm)
Ulead Movie Factory 6 has AVCHD Editing capabilities, so dores the llatest Nero, I know the new Final Cut Has just been realeases April 2007 but not sure if it supports AVCHD. I recently purchased the Panasonic HDC-SD1 and the software that came with the camera would not work on my Vista Ultimate Laptop but I was able to use it on my xp desktop, I am downloading the Ulead Movie Factory as I write this, nero 7 is very memory and cpu hungry, I basiacally fros on a single coe 1 gb system and I have read other posts it is one of the slower editing software out of the list. The hdmi output port connected to my hd tv the picture is excellent, I do not have an hd DVD burner or blue ray yet but I do have an HD DVD player in my laptop (HP DV9260nr) hopefully when the price driops I will be able to replace the drive with a burner.
josephlorraine (July 6, 2007 @ 5:24 am)
I have sony HDR-SR1E, i am not able to import video to the windows movie maker, please advice how to go about for a sucessfull movie making,
thanks
Jim Petterson (August 29, 2007 @ 3:36 pm)
Apple’s Final Cut latest version supports AVCHD.
Nero
Canopus Edius
Pinnacle Studio 10.5? and 11, definately 11
Sony Vegas (Platinium edition)(see below)
Ulead Movie Factory (Patch on website)
Seemingly Sony’s Software Supports AVCHD done on Sony Cams but not Panasonic Cameras. I am told by Panasonic both companies created the format and both use the same codec but somehow Panasonic cameras are bolcked by the Sony software.
jkoch (August 30, 2007 @ 6:42 am)
Windows Movie Maker imports and edits AVCHD, at least in my case.
Yesterday, I received a Sony FZ190 with 2.4 GHz core 2 duo, NVIDIA 8400M GT, 4 GB RAM, and a Blu Ray burner with firmware support.
The Windows Media Player and Windows Movie Maker do not recognize the MTS files from an AVCHD camcorder as “video files,” but the file browser will see and open them if set to “all files.” Playback is smooth. The Movie Maker gives smooth playback in edit review mode. Export options are limited to various Windows formats, including 1080p at (a rather low) 7 Mbps. One can import the video project into the Vista DVD maker.
I do not know wheter my ability to play and edit the files owes to a codec that came with the BD player, or if the version of Vista that came with the notebook happened to have the codec bundled. In any case, it is a pleasant surprise.
My guess is that the Vista DVD maker can burn high definition disks in some WMV, MPEG2 or AVI format, if not Blu Ray. The Sony Click to DVD BD does burn Blu Rays. To maximize disk compatibility, I will probably burn to double layer DVDs in a format that any BD, HD-DVD, or PC drive should recognize. Some software (Nero) allows creation of DVDs in AVCHD format, which is the most compact (80 minutes per double layer 8 GB DVD in HQ 13 Mbps), but few stand-alone players have the codec to play them–yet.
Over time, I will experiment with the various export formats to judge which provides the best tradeoff of quality, compatibility, and file size.